Richard Eckersley: 0:47

Well.

Malcolm Stern: 0:49

I'm Malcolm Stern and this is the podcast with myself, and my guest today is Richard Eckersley, a former Manchester United fullback, played with Ronaldo and that really fascinating. So we'll talk about his football life and he's changed dramatically. So he's my mate, who lives locally, and we'll talk a bit about his journey. And I want to say that I'm doing this in conjunction with online events, so online events are hosting these podcasts and we're building up a series of them. So it's really great to have you come here, richard. I really appreciate it and we're going to talk a bit about.

Malcolm Stern: 1:26

The podcast is Sleigh your Dragons with Compassion and basically it's about the changes we've made in our lives and what has been the dragon, what's been the thing we've had to slay in order to move into who we are. But you don't have to crack that all in one, so we'll sort of draw it out in terms of how we speak. So you play for Manchester United. You don't get more glamorous than that, really, except if you're on the stage or you're a pop star or whatever else. So you've had the experience of being a real somebody, a glamorous somebody in the world, and I think one of the things I find most impressive about your journey and I have seen your potential, so I had to have a research.

Malcolm Stern: 2:12

The one thing I find most impressive about your journey is that you've been in the same relationship since you were 16 years old. You didn't get drawn off with all of the glamour and stuff which is so easy to do, and I've seen friends of mine who've sort of become well known and I've watched them turn into ourselves. So yeah, but that didn't happen for you. So let's just take a look at how you did become what you were and how you've become what you are now, because I think what you are now is fascinating. We'll talk about that in a minute, but tell me a bit about Manchester United and footballing and whatever else.

Richard Eckersley: 2:46

Well, I think you know, from the most part we have to go back to the beginning, obviously, growing up in Manchester Everyone knows that Manchester is it's. It's an anonymous footballer, me growing up in just on the fringes of Manchester, there was only one aspect for me to kind of go into and my brothers played it, my dad played it, so I only knew football and that was the biggest. That was the biggest step for me into going into this, into this great path and plus.

Malcolm Stern: 3:17

I was.

Richard Eckersley: 3:17

I was aware that I was athletic, I was aware that I had the strength and the speed to potentially you know, maybe do something in football, potentially one day.

Malcolm Stern: 3:29

You'll notice how humbly it is, because actually you've got to be pretty amazing to get to the beginning.

Richard Eckersley: 3:34

Yeah, I mean I was. I would say that I was very, very good for the well you have to be.

Malcolm Stern: 3:42

Yeah you're.

Richard Eckersley: 3:42

I mean, if you think about the odds of someone staying playing football a very young age which I did at five, five, four or five and then going all the way up to 21 and getting Manchester United first team playing alongside the world's greatest players yeah, that is a journey of progression and you have to be, you have to be elite. So, yeah, it's an elite mentality more than anything else. I think it's kind of knowing and thinking that you're the best and then you eventually reaching that milestone. But it didn't start off like that. I mean, for me I had a brother and this is probably one of my dragons.

Richard Eckersley: 4:17

I had a brother that was ultra competitive, so like the closest in age to me, he would. He would compete against me in everything, and when I was younger that would bog me down a little bit and actually he's probably spurred me on even to this day to actually do more and be more, because I've got that in the back of my head, that that competitiveness. I've kind of tapered it down at the minute because it's not going to serve me in my career, but it's definitely. It was definitely a catalyst for me becoming a professional footballer and professional athlete and an elite athlete as well.

Richard Eckersley: 4:51

So that was, that was the main thing for me. That, you know, got me started into this and for me, schooling and like that type of education. I came from a very working class family and my mom and dad had two jobs. You know they'd have Sundays off and that was it. And the only thing for me would get out of that and to kind of transition and do something different and maybe make some money from it would be to become a professional footballer. But reflecting on it now actually, I mean I don't play football anymore. I play it very rarely, but I wouldn't say I play it on a regular basis and I actually probably never really liked it.

Malcolm Stern: 5:29

That's really interesting, you know. It's like you know you're in the peak of the career that people would absolutely die to be in.

Richard Eckersley: 5:38

Well, I find it interesting because when you would speak to the other professionals or going through my career, when I talk to people, they'd be like I love this job. It's amazing, it's all right. I don't feel the way you're feeling about it. I couldn't sit on a bench and be happy. I'd be like this is annoying me. I want to throw something at someone. I was just angry inside me that maybe it was bubbling up because I probably wasn't doing what I was called to do.

Malcolm Stern: 6:03

So when you've got 50,000 people, or more 75,000, 75,000 people in a stadium watching you play. You know, I know, if I give a talk to 200 people, it's like I get lit up by that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you've got 75,000 people in a stadium watching you play. You're playing with people like Ronaldo and you're playing with the best players in the world and against some of the best players in the world, presumably as well, doesn't that give you a lift?

Richard Eckersley: 6:30

It did, but your training? I mean I was part of Manchester United's academy from the ages of nine, eight or nine, so all that training all them years, so I came in at eight or nine. I made my debut at 19,. Actually I was 19 years of age.

Malcolm Stern: 6:45

So that 10 years.

Richard Eckersley: 6:47

They'd be basically gearing you up to be ready for this moment. So it wasn't like it was a I'm going to pluck you out of a top nest town and drop you on old traffic's pitch it was. It was a conditioning that we all went through my age group, we all went through like a regiment, like an army regiment, ready for this moment when Alex Ferguson goes come on, you're on, and I was like, okay, ready.

Malcolm Stern: 7:08

So he's like. He's like a legend, and I was working with Alex Ferguson. He doesn't look like the sweetest guy in the world.

Richard Eckersley: 7:15

He is he is actually really sweet.

Malcolm Stern: 7:17

Is he sweet?

Richard Eckersley: 7:18

He knows when to when to like give you a kick up the arse. He knows when to like give you a pat on the back, and I think that's what made him very unique and, especially with the younger Players have been coming, he was very accommodating, he'd want to do things for you. He's saying was his door was always open and he saw potential and he loved it when young Local kicks were coming through, because that is the bedrock of my tonight and that's probably what the issues are actually. Now I don't really watch it too much, but from here in around, working in a shop, hearing around town that's the issue with my tonight. I was like the bedrock of its team. It needs to be local mancunions, you know that's. That's what makes it.

Richard Eckersley: 8:00

Amazing squad, because that's what we had growing up. We had post goals Gary never looks very box local. Ryan Kiggs, you know Phil Neville like all these players, they were the bedrock of the team. They've been there for the longest. They would never plan on leaving and that's what kind of solidified their success, I feel. And but but he was. He was a very else, focusing, an amazing leader, an amazing way of Getting his message across to his team and inspiring, and I think his passion and his drive From that time is actually what's kind of you know, I carry with me now, even this day. I remember him quite well.

Malcolm Stern: 8:35

Well, he's probably one of the managers of all times.

Richard Eckersley: 8:38

Yeah, managers, not just a football manager, but manager of people, and that's the biggest people skills, isn't it?

Malcolm Stern: 8:42

So it's so. You got nurtured. You've got effectively an extra fathering, presumably yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 8:48

I mean it's funny because he wasn't the close to me is what he was to say other players because I don't know he take a liking to other players more than some players, for whatever reason. But there was definitely a hold in their Respect and I think it goes both ways as well. It's quite daunting to Play in front of a person that's been in the game for 20 years and managed the best place in the world psychological and I think Psychologically I think I found it very difficult.

Richard Eckersley: 9:18

Try, even though you've been trained all these years, stepping into this, into these boots, literally the players that basically won everything and done everything in this sport, the best in this sport that I play. It's a hard, psychological game, battle even some people take to it really well, but there's not so much I think I'm flexing. Probably I was young and Maybe not as wise-headed as what you know you know?

Malcolm Stern: 9:42

you know, we learn the hard way, don't we? You know, our lessons get taught to us by making mistakes.

Richard Eckersley: 9:47

Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I mean going back to my upbringing it. My mom and dad's were, Matt, like big United fans, and I think that played a big role in obviously my interactions with it and my when I got into the first team like seeing them be proud of it.

Malcolm Stern: 10:03

Oh God, yeah, it was like.

Richard Eckersley: 10:04

Really that's probably one of the things that I mean. No, so I'm speaking about it much but no reflection. That's probably what I take from it most like seeing them having that proud moment all in years of driving to training. Yeah, amazing, you know that that was, that was, you know, amazing to be part of it?

Malcolm Stern: 10:20

Oh, it's funny because I.

Malcolm Stern: 10:22

You know you talk about the relationship between manager and player and when I was in my 20s we used to go to the same hotel in in New Yorker Bumps and mates, and I bet that's when he's strong. We go there. And one year Matt Busby was there with George best. No, I'm sure best sort of picked off every, every one of the women are crowd and just you know, bang, bang, bang. But but actually the relationship between Matt Busby and George best was amazing because George best was wild and couldn't be Tanya. Matt Busby loved him and that was very vis-a-nose. Even in my twenties I can remember that and see that he was a man who'd really taken him on and it sounds like Alex Burtin took on his play well, he did and he didn't crush their personalities.

Malcolm Stern: 11:03

Yeah, that was about he wanted them to kind of fit.

Richard Eckersley: 11:05

I mean this back and back. I'm talking to mention, obviously that's come out recently about him wanting to beckon, to wear that black boots and you know conforms, so just being a magician out there and not doing anything outside the football. But he was doing it for a reason because he wanted to keep his team tight. And actually, as the years went on and as I started going to the Manchester first thing, I think, I suppose and realize this and like I need people to bring their personalities because essentially that's what Football manager is doing to adapt to?

Richard Eckersley: 11:36

the modern game, you have to allow other personalities to come into the team in the cauldron, and that's what's going to make, you know, a good bro, so to speak.

Malcolm Stern: 11:44

Yeah, but.

Richard Eckersley: 11:45

I think you definitely learn that as the years went on and as I, came in. Yeah, I think you had Ronaldo, you had a lot of other like Gerard Piquet. You had all these other players that brought different, a different type of personality, and it wasn't usually traditional Gary Neville head down like focused.

Richard Eckersley: 12:02

Yeah, he's a different type of player and he allowed for that. But but that shows him as a leader again, because he was able to step back and be like I'm gonna change, I need to reflect, I need to change the modern game. I cannot keep my ways of thinking from the 90s I've got to bring into 2000s and change the way I do things, and I think he said that a lot in his books and documentaries that I've heard of and I noticed that.

Malcolm Stern: 12:27

Because, as a team course, manchester United were don't understand much. Show the whole time.

Richard Eckersley: 12:30

It's so fascinating.

Malcolm Stern: 12:32

But as a team I think they're iconic. There's it's like that's the team where you go, my God, an extraordinary experience that the creation Manchester United wasn't like. This is long before your time, but I was eight years old when the Munich crash happened and it was like. It was so horrific. It's like one of those moments. You remember where you were. I remember where I was when they announced the person Kennedy had been killed. But I remember where I was in in my parents living room at eight years old and, my God, this, like Manchester United's team I sort of idolized have been decimated and all that right talent Duncan Edwards and all the rest of the great talent and Bobby Chum coming through it and then becoming one of the greats as well.

Richard Eckersley: 13:16

I mean, but that that's part of the United story, that's part of that 10 years that I was talking about earlier is that they teach you the history. They teach you and ingrain the history inside of you so that when you put on that suit and you're going on for a match day I mean, that's another thing as well as how you show up for the games you, we all wear suits.

Richard Eckersley: 13:33

I don't know if it's the same thing, but we all used to wear suits and it's like a professional aspect to it. You're coming because you know the history, you know the managers that come before you and you know what the Manchester United standard is and we used to go away on like tournaments when we were younger, like in our early teams. That's important all the way up to when I'm in my debut To France, italy, germany, and the coaches would always say you're representing Manchester United now. This is so important.

Malcolm Stern: 14:00

That's not me, you don't go out.

Richard Eckersley: 14:02

You don't do this. This is Manchester United standard and it it stays with you and even to this day I have this level of professionalism when I want to do things, and it's from that earlier You've been ingrained you've been trained. I've been ingrained and trained, somewhat indoctrinated maybe, but it gets me into a way of being able to create things, because I focus on it and actually I want to do things to a standard of the Manchester United. So it's a blessing and a curse as well at the same time.

Malcolm Stern: 14:34

And, interestingly, you've had the same woman with you all the way through all of that.

Richard Eckersley: 14:40

Yeah, and that's what I found difficult. I don't speak about that often but when we first got my myself and my wife Nicola, we met when we was 15, we got together when we were 16. So she's been on that whole journey with me through my footballing years and then eventually I left Manchester United. I got offered a two year contract and another Premiership team came into me and was offering me triple the amount of money and all the glitzing glamour and I was like 19, I'm taking the opportunity. I was going to talk to the focus on the office until I was leaving.

Richard Eckersley: 15:12

It was one of the moments when you say you remember the way it was when the president of the Kennedy got shot. I remember like what that feeling was the morning when I was going to knock on Sir Alex's focus into office and tell him that I'm going to leave the club because I've got this other offer and you know. But I think the relationship that we forged over them years was not easy because we had moments when I left Manchester United where I had real dip and I would turn into money and gambling and cars and houses to kind of make me feel like I did when I was at Manchester United and I never get back to that feeling. I got back to it a little bit in North America. I never really got back to that feeling that I got when I was part of that culture.

Richard Eckersley: 15:59

So, there was. There was a distraction for the first few years, I believe, in Manchester United. Then I realised quickly, when I left the country and was on my own and reflected on time myself, that actually what do I really want, what do I really want to do, and that's how we felt it's interesting.

Malcolm Stern: 16:18

It is interesting I mean it's interesting because you've tasted the fruits of success and I think it's very easy to sort of. We were talking before about that. You give up the world, but you give up the world before you've had the world. So there's one thing about and you know, I've learned this from the Supermaster, or Hazard of Night of Calm through his son, peter Light of Calm that we go through the world. You know, sort of like we start off with picking flowers everywhere and then we move on to making our way in the world, and then we reject the world, and then we have to find our way to really make our way in the world before we reject it.

Malcolm Stern: 16:53

And you've done that, and you know, at a young age. And then ultimately what he says is the final stage of that is you come back to the place where you're no longer sort of like caught up with the stuff of the world, that they can throw stones and they can call your names, but actually you're no longer caught up in that. So you've found a way of bringing a passion which I was going to talk about for the health into your life and into the lives of this community here in Tarnes, where we live as well, tell us a bit about. So you finally moved on. You went to North America, I know after your sense.

Richard Eckersley: 17:34

Yeah, I mean I was looking for an out, basically not out of football, but I was looking for out of Berlin, where I was playing. At the time. I was on great money and I was desperate to get out of there. Because what I realized is I thought I made my Manchester United debut, made it doing well, you know, highly regarded Manchester United. I've, like you know what the hubris in me was like I'm going to leave, I'm going to go and play in the Premier League on X amount of money. It's going to be, I'm going to have a great football.

Richard Eckersley: 18:04

The cricket did not happen like that. I realized quickly that I wasn't in favour of Berlin. We had a manager change and things just went downhill from there. The funny thing about football is you move and you're on a certain amount of money and then a manager comes in, you're out of favour. You might be playing in the reserve reserves, but you're still on this amount of money. So it's such a strange contrast. You're not feeling that. You're feeling that it's Islamic because you've got money coming into you every month but you're not getting the highs of like playing the sport that you've known what to do for the longest time.

Richard Eckersley: 18:39

So I was looking for a way out of Burnley and obviously this opportunity in North America came knocking on my door and I just snapped it up and I think that was the start of me realizing how I want to interact with the world. I think that space and that time away from my friends who I grew up with, and even Nicola, to allow me to figure out what I want to do and what I want to be. Like I said earlier, I had a great time in North America playing for Toronto in this amazing city on my own, obviously interacting with my teammates, and we had a great footballing team in the MLS. And then I went over and played in New York Red Bulls and that was the biggest shift when I moved there, because I started to develop my own thoughts and feelings about the world and like how do I want to impact it in a positive way?

Malcolm Stern: 19:36

I was hoping in a positive way and I think that's where the whole story starts to begin really of what was next that's going to happen, essentially, I mean, what you've done is extraordinary because you don't know how many degrees you've returned and you've found a career that is actually powerful, contributes to the community that you care about, obviously, deeply.

Richard Eckersley: 20:00

Yeah, it's funny because we spoke about money. But I found that when I had money I was probably no-transcript, I was rattling around in a big house, a nice car on the dry, I just nothing would make me feel good. You know, I'd go shopping. It'd be really like a temporary bandaid for what I was feeling. I wasn't getting any fulfillment. But now the money's not there, the house isn't there, all that sort of stuff. But now I have more fulfillment now, more of a nourishing place than what I had when I was at home.

Richard Eckersley: 20:36

That's the amount on the bank. It's so interesting because, as kids, success isn't being a bin man, it's not. Everyone says if you don't get your good grades, you're going to be a bin man. Well, I actually challenge that. I actually say maybe that bin man is really happy. He finishes at 3pm every day, gets to go home with his kids and his wife and he has a great time. But we're basing success on how much money we're acquiring and I think that is a society where we've gone on.

Malcolm Stern: 21:06

Well, we're deeply brainwashed. This is the thing. We're brainwashed by Hollywood movies. We're brainwashed by our upbringing, our education and all of that sort of stuff.

Richard Eckersley: 21:14

I've literally lived and tested it and I can honestly say that there is an aspect to money. Yes, it's a tool. You need the basics 100%, but above and beyond that, I think it really makes it very thin ice. I just don't feel like it fulfills the soul. So you're a milkman now, richard, I'm a milkman.

Richard Eckersley: 21:34

I'm a milkman, I don't make anybody, but I am very fulfilled and I think it's what I want to be contributing to in the community. That's going to change, hopefully, people's lives and the way people think about waste in general.

Malcolm Stern: 21:49

Yes, so you've got I mean, I know you've got really great plant milk, dairy, Non-dairy, non-dairy dairy, no cows and eggs no cows, exactly and I buy your stuff. It's really lovely tasting Packaging glass. It's like you turn me on to that. We've also got a zero waste shop in town and again, you know, I've become a regular there as well, because it's just it's great to be able to buy all your stuff without packaging. So you're living behind some ideals and, as you say, you're happy and now and you and Nicola do it together, yeah, which is pretty amazing as well.

Richard Eckersley: 22:25

Yeah, I think that's really important because, well, she's a bedrock of how we go about our days. Essentially, she kind of sets the tone for how we kind of for me to be able to go out and work and innovate and think of these ideas. I think that woman at home is really important for me.

Malcolm Stern: 22:42

I think it is.

Richard Eckersley: 22:43

To kind of fall into that space.

Malcolm Stern: 22:44

You know, it's interesting when, when I met you because I used to come and do some facilitation at the community where you live and I didn't know anything about you, but what I did notice about you was how absolutely loving you were towards Nicola. So we'd have these meetings which are a couple of hours long and and you'd be sitting with her and obviously so happy to be with her.

Richard Eckersley: 23:05

Well, that's developed. That's developed because I don't think you love it first sight, so probably a thing we got in this attraction. But I think it's through the difficulties that we face that actually become much more closer and we have this kind of connection now that we never had before and that love is kind of it's gone deeper than a like a, you know, a face value. It's much more like internal.

Malcolm Stern: 23:30

Yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 23:31

Having kids with her, the biggest, the biggest attraction for me, seeing how she interacts with with our children.

Malcolm Stern: 23:39

Yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 23:39

Like that for me is attraction. I love it and your children are happy.

Malcolm Stern: 23:42

You know, I've seen again, I've seen your kids. They're happy, they're easy, they're Well then mirrors.

Richard Eckersley: 23:46

They're mirrors of what we are.

Malcolm Stern: 23:48

Yes.

Richard Eckersley: 23:48

So if I come home stressed or frustrated or angry, they directly might not be that moment, but the next day they'll. They'll have some sort of reaction to that.

Malcolm Stern: 23:56

Yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 23:57

And it's just about leading things at the door If I am stressed or annoyed or frustrated and just interacting with them, not not not shadowing them from real life, but just saying, like we have this thing when we, when we eat food, we we talk about apples and onions. So what was your onion of the day and what was your apple of the day? And we and we get into that rhythm of even them speaking about it before you're older than a seven year old and like you know my Elvis willow, what was your, what was your onion of the day? And she might say, fell over or whatever. So what was your apple of the day? And she might like I don't know, I had some chocolate and watch the film. I don't know, but it gets them talking about actually seeing what, what works in that day and what didn't work for them in the, rather than bottling it up and releasing it the next day was through frustration.

Malcolm Stern: 24:45

So family and purpose in life have become very big things for you.

Richard Eckersley: 24:50

I think it's the most important thing. I think in communities community community with the people.

Richard Eckersley: 24:55

I think, as I don't know, in recent maybe in the last 10 years or so communities have died out, like lots of communities have died out, but actually now we're really I'd like to think we realize as humans that we need humans to be happy. There's an element in being in community and knowing people and finding people that you connect with. It brings joy and people. It's been known that you live longer when you have a group of people around you you can trust and rely on. So I live in community.

Richard Eckersley: 25:29

I have them neighbors, slash family that the girls can go out and meet and we can kind of interact with each other. And yeah, it's not about like locking my door, it's about like extending my table to let in more people as much as possible and I think the shop's great for that. The shop is so important for meeting people and it's so funny because the people come into the shop and they're only visiting Tarnes and obviously like kind of a nice couple or a nice individual like you can move there, like in such an amazing place. And anyway there's so many people that have actually moved here. I don't know if it's because of my conversation, but I think they it's the impression that you put upon them of the place that this is.

Richard Eckersley: 26:09

This is a place of local people and a really vibrant community.

Malcolm Stern: 26:13

And it's funny enough, a friend of mine is coming tomorrow from London and he's looking at the places to live because he thinks I don't want to be in London anymore.

Richard Eckersley: 26:21

I want to be in community and this is it. This is I think that and family love is the bedrock of well of my life at the moment. I'm very nourished by it, actually.

Malcolm Stern: 26:33

So do you miss the highlight?

Richard Eckersley: 26:34

that you had this element of no. To be honest, I don't miss. I never enjoyed being like centre of attention. I always shadowed him. I didn't like that whole glitzing glamour. I just don't think it was. I don't feel comfortable with it. It felt very odd, very alien to me.

Malcolm Stern: 26:59

I saw a very interesting documentary on George Best recently, who was always a bit of a hero of mine. I mean, to watch him playing was to watch.

Richard Eckersley: 27:06

Pure.

Malcolm Stern: 27:06

Magic on the screen and his wife was saying his ex-wife was saying that he used to use alcohol when he was doing well, not when he was not doing well. And I totally get that. It's like you can't contain this. It's like you know you're like a lord somebody.

Richard Eckersley: 27:29

Wow, and people are kind of stopping you on the street and like wanting to take pictures with you and you know he's not enough. You know you can hear them talking when you walk in. You know past them. It's a difficult place for your soul to be and I don't envy players like the biggest you know, leo Messi, ronaldo, all these top, top players and celebrities, because, like we talk about, like the importance of soul work, like what?

Malcolm Stern: 27:58

is it doing to?

Richard Eckersley: 27:59

your soul and your ego Having that pedestal all the time? And uphold this way of being? Can he just be himself, like what is in what is his himself? Yes, all themselves.

Malcolm Stern: 28:10

It's really interesting and, of course, people wanting to know you because you're a somebody.

Richard Eckersley: 28:14

Well, they think they know you. They've seen you a lot on TV. They know your voice, they know your personality because, say, if you're a presenter or something, you're kind of coming across a certain way, but it's not, it's all very, very fictitious. So yeah.

Malcolm Stern: 28:29

So what's your? Where do you, where do you go from here? So you've had a giant shift, and clearly a good one for you as well. It's been a good one.

Richard Eckersley: 28:37

I mean it's never, it's not. It's not a monetary one. I will say that it's more.

Richard Eckersley: 28:42

I mean, I didn't realise this initially I thought that the money would always be there, but I we just can't get by now and that for me, is enough at this moment in time. When I left football and I said to you earlier about what the daunting task of leaving something I've been doing for 15, 15 or so years and I also said to Nick when I was, when I was leaving football, like OK, you know, I'm leaving, I'm taking on a new career. We're both taking on a new career because you're going to do something different to it, but it's like it's a good story to tell. Even if anything fails, that we try. We can then talk about it on the table one day when we're, when we're old and gray and I like that.

Richard Eckersley: 29:22

I like the aspect of like trying different things and doing different things, because I think life is the kind of exploring all aspects of life. I don't think it's just necessarily just one thing, you know one. I think it's just trying to have different things to try and experience as much as you can, because I think it's it's, it's a soul journey.

Malcolm Stern: 29:42

Yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 29:43

You know, and I think that that's what, that's what I believe now. So we left football. Well, I left football, people left football with me, and then we set up the shop in Tottenhams and people asked like, why did you come to Tottenhams?

Richard Eckersley: 29:55

And I always used to say, like we Google the most organic, vegan, zero waste, no organic vegan place to live in the UK and three places playing up at Hebdo Bridge, blastonbury and Tottenhams and I said to me never been to Tottenhams, let's just rent a camp and go down and see what it's like knowing that we wanted to move somewhere and then we sat on Slapton Beach, which is about 30 minutes away from here, and it's like a pebble beach and we were just like, look, teach on that. What can we do to live here?

Malcolm Stern: 30:21

And that was that, was it.

Richard Eckersley: 30:22

And then we knew, then it was like OK we're going to start something and we're going to kind of we're going to see how it grows and it's been off the shops been off in six years. Now We've been off in four years and, yeah, it's a growing community of people and it feels very awesome to be here.

Malcolm Stern: 30:39

So you make a real contribution and I like that you talk about a solo level, because at my August years I started, you know, that starts to become a major part of my thinking, but when I was your age I was sort of, you know, I didn't even think about stuff like that.

Richard Eckersley: 30:55

And I was. I think it'd be a shame if it never comes to you in your life as a human, like I think at some point people maybe that's where midlife crisis has come, because people do the same thing or are stuck in the same rut for so many years and then they, if they're made by a super room, they go out racing and it's like they're probably they're looking for some sort of ship. You know, and I had my look at it, I had mine quite early and yeah, it was just a huge ship. With respect, and I think the way I contributed to that and obviously, what you feed yourself is what you grow on, and I think changing my diet plant based, vegan diet really changed and shifted my whole perception on the world and you know how I want to live within it.

Malcolm Stern: 31:41

So yeah, there was a lot.

Richard Eckersley: 31:42

I think there's a lot of factors, that kind of helped, but I think the main things were probably diet Football, falling out of love with football Whether I was in love or not, I don't know falling out of love with it, and then having a woman with me. I think that really helped me kind of be brave enough to make a different career path change my career path and do something for me.

Malcolm Stern: 32:04

I mean I always said, like I just wanted to do something, I can ride to work.

Richard Eckersley: 32:07

I'm up like every day I'm not getting, not trying to ring my agent up and trying to get a club and or getting phone calls from my chairman or the manager saying this, this, and that I just want to be my own kind of like, do my own thing and that's essentially what. I've kind of got, although it's stressful because it's not all sunshine and rainbows. But it's definitely more nourishing than being told what to do and where to go and how to live Absolutely.

Malcolm Stern: 32:32

Yeah, and you did a TED talk about your, your magnificent shift of career.

Richard Eckersley: 32:39

Yeah, I mean that was really hard To. To memorize a speech for 14 minutes is pretty tough, but yeah, it was, it was something that I wanted to do. They contacted me. I've not actually done anything since the beginning. This is the only thing I've been since, really, yeah.

Malcolm Stern: 32:57

Oh, thank you very much for everything. Yeah, that's great.

Richard Eckersley: 33:00

Well, yeah, and then I love what you do, but but I I want I think it's good that that message is out in the world and maybe one person may watch it and be like you know he's not there, I'm gonna do something different. I don't want to do this. I don't want to continue on this stuff. So maybe it was by one person you know, but yeah, it was a good experience and it's not something I do again.

Malcolm Stern: 33:25

Well, it's funny, I think what I'm thinking about as I'm speaking to you is I had a it's not the same but a similar sort of Patterning. I left school and and Son of a can see, and then went into a state agency. It was only decent money, drug jag and all this sort of stuff, and my father was really proud of me. And then I sort of dropped out. I sort of took some substances some one time and it's like, well, the world's utterly different and I wanted to do good in the world. So I sailed on the rainbow warrior with Greenpeace.

Malcolm Stern: 33:54

I studied psychotherapy, which I'm now a psychotherapist. I worked in a whole food store, I worked in terminal cancer hospice and all these things. I wanted to bring meaning into my life. And I was so much happier Once I'd left behind the sort of the rat race of trying to make it. I remember when I, the day I finally surrendered being the satiate and we'd come to the Playboy Club for dinner where they used to go, he said in those days and I threw my watch out of the window I was in because I just thought I don't need it anymore.

Richard Eckersley: 34:24

I love that, I love what I love hearing people's Journists, because obviously you summarized it there in 30 seconds, but that was probably a good few years.

Malcolm Stern: 34:33

Of life. It was a half-time years.

Richard Eckersley: 34:35

Yeah, yeah it's a kind of like get to that place. Yeah, I find it very inspiring to listen to people when they've had a shift. It's hard because you have to break them all. We, from three years of age, were put in a classroom. This is how we're gonna do things. This is what you're gonna drop.

Malcolm Stern: 34:53

Yeah, this is how you're gonna go up.

Richard Eckersley: 34:55

You can only use this pencil or this pencil, and I think you stain that system all the way through up until you're 18 and Then, right, won't find a job. Okay, you know you're looking around, but you may see the okay, I'll do an apprenticeship, I'll find out something I'll do, and actually only the 80 years of some level of suffering. So you realize.

Malcolm Stern: 35:15

I don't want to do this shit.

Richard Eckersley: 35:16

I'm gonna break three and I'm gonna have some time of reflection, which I don't think. In our culture we kind of celebrate, and reflection time is really important and and it's hard sometimes to break that mold of 18 years Because in our culture we just, you know, we're not. That's what I think, that's what some level of school is for. Yeah, not to teach is keep you in this position, to keep the fuel for the economy. Yes and that is the biggest thing you can do is break free from that.

Malcolm Stern: 35:48

Yeah, Then constraints, you know well, it's a great quote I used to use on the front of my flyers from my workshops. We're from Robert Louis Stevenson. He said to be who we are and to become what we can become. That's the sole purpose in life. And James Hillman, the psychotherapist, says inside, every one of us is a diamond M-o-n and it will drive us mad until we do what it is we were born to do. So you, you know you do. You're born to try out for board, but you're doing something else now.

Richard Eckersley: 36:17

Well, it's given me the springboard to do something else. I have to say, obviously I'm not able to. We might have to do that. I don't come from a family of money and so to do what we've done, it took an aspect of finances to kind of get it onto this, so I'm aware of that. But yeah, but it can. It can affect anyone in any walk of life. You can do something that just nourishes you and feed your soul rather than take them, you can take me or something.

Richard Eckersley: 36:48

Yes and I think that's. I think that'd be amazing if people couldn't find that Early running life. So then you can work on our soldier.

Malcolm Stern: 36:55

Well, you found it early on in life and that's great that you're actually. You're living it and we're speaking about it, and I hope you do a lot more of these sort of things and I don't know if I get invited to but, I, love.

Richard Eckersley: 37:05

I love the aspects of it's. The perfect time is now, because my kids are growing up and they're seeing my mom and dad used to hate work and Nicholas mom, dad used to hate work he's like I don't know what to work, I don't want to use the crap. It's. Not once can we ever say that, because it's so fulfilling it's always actually and I hope that's what they take from this.

Richard Eckersley: 37:24

Yes, we work out and we bound with how we work and you know how much we work, but it's like it's letting them see Actually work can be contributed. Not just you don't just have to live at home all day with your feet up.

Malcolm Stern: 37:37

You know you can work towards something or something that you're passionate about and if your soul is in there as well, yeah, not just, you're not just ticking the box to earn the money. No, and for some people we had, they know we have to earn the money, but there is a sort of a privilege In being able to do what your soul is inviting you to do.

Richard Eckersley: 37:54

Well, it's a trap in it, because when we leave, school, the first thing that we do is buy a car. Okay, I need to, I need to finance this car. How do I pay for it? I got a job, got paid for this car. Then a mortgage you know, a lifetime signature, essentially, is what things a lot to mean. A mortgage, a lifetime deal, and then anyway, and and it's like, then you've got, you've been that trap then yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 38:18

You're in that, that mouse wheel and it's. It's having that wisdom early on actually To allow me to have freedom. I can't commit to being like To having these fancy things. You know it was hard. You need that. You need that education. It doesn't come from school?

Malcolm Stern: 38:36

I don't think it does, and we have to learn that either. How we do it. I think travel helps. I mean, probably you went to the states as well, that's the big.

Richard Eckersley: 38:42

That's the way.

Malcolm Stern: 38:44

Yeah.

Richard Eckersley: 38:47

They want to do a year by myself and just going home with my apartment day in, day out. Just be by myself. That was really important for my growth, yeah.

Malcolm Stern: 38:55

Yeah, that's great. Well, richard, thank you so much for coming in today. I really appreciate your emm, your input. I think it's a really good episode, so we're gonna pump it up. Thank you very much indeed, and we'll see you I'm done soon. Thank you very much, thank you.