SPEAKER_00: 0:46

Hi, I'm Malcolm Stern, and in conjunction with my friends John and Sandra Wilson from Online Events, we're creating a series of podcasts called Slay Your Dragons with Compassion. My book of the same name was conceived and inspired by the suicide of my daughter Melissa and the journey that took me on and the internal resources that I found. All of my guests will have a story to tell around overcoming and ultimately thriving through adversity. Special thanks to the band Stairway, Jim McCarty, and Louis Chenamo for the use of theme music from their album Medicine Dance and my engineer Owen Santiago. I hope you enjoy this series, and thanks for listening. So, welcome to uh my podcast Slay Your Dragons with Compassion, made in conjunction with my friends John and Sandra Wilson from online events. And this has been a series of interviews with people who have stories to tell, who have found some way of using adversity to shape who they are. And um I'm very pleased to welcome um Claire, uh Claire McCastell, uh also known as Claire Run Coach. Um and Claire has made um is making a living and making her her name and her way by teaching people how to run. Now that's quite an interesting sort of um not your norm. You didn't go to school and go, I think I'd I'd be a run coach. But let's just see how that, how you arrived at that. What is it that's that's turned you into a running coach?

SPEAKER_01: 2:21

Well, first of all, morning and thank you for having me on.

unknown: 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

Um so it's been a bit of a journey to get to actually being a run coach. My actual profession when I left university, I went into recruitment. So I was a recruitment manager for professional services firms, and I really did human resource management at university, so it was kind of where I wanted to go. Um, but after about 15 years, it was not serving me at all. Um, it wasn't the purpose that I was craving and really wanting. And I've always been sporty, I've always been involved in sport, and so I my natural kind of progression was what am I gonna do? And um, I always knew, I mean, I've all um I've always run. Um, but I went into swimming first, so I actually retrained to be a swimming teacher, which I absolutely loved and adored. I was teaching the the wee tots at at school, and I did that until COVID hit. So COVID actually shuts down. I was living in Scotland at the time, and um and it shuts down and it made me reassess and kind of re-evaluate everything that, well, a lot of things, but certainly in terms of my what I wanted to do with my life in terms of my job, I always knew that I wanted to do something with running. I always knew, and COVID actually gave me the kick. So at the time I um was starting my self-development journey. I'd started it a couple of years before COVID actually, and I had the opportunity to join a course, a positive psychology course. And also I at the time I was doing my run coach um qualification, and just the two are made, you know, marriage made in heaven, really, because it's the the sport is a lot to do with with up here, so the positive psychology. So that's how I got into it, and I've been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_00: 4:15

So you found your purpose, and that's interesting because very often people sort of go into as as I did, and as many of my friends have go into careers that don't really suit them. They're probably reasonably normally reasonably good at it, which means you can carry on with it, but you use the word soul, and actually, if your soul's not in it, then then I think there's a there's a real lack, and somehow your soul is in what you're doing now. I've seen the enthusiasm with which you you talk about it, with which you create it. And um I'm I'm wondering what what sort of led you towards your soul's journey, because um you got brought up in a presumably not in a house that was full of a spiritual sort of practice, particularly what I've gathered.

SPEAKER_01: 4:56

No, not at all. Um, how how did I get into it? It's um well, my self-development journey started about seven years ago. Um, I just knew there was something missing. I just I don't I didn't know what it was, I wasn't sure, and I kind of fell into this world of self-development alongside at the same time. Um, I actually stopped drinking. So there was a whole heap of stuff going on there. It was all mixed in. And I think the stopping drinking, and it wasn't a problem, it was a habitual thing. It was, you know, I was drinking because it was a Monday or maybe a Friday night, you know, but it wasn't a problem as you would call an alcoholic problem. But it that led me to look at my myself. It really, you know, because I think when we drink sometimes, well, certainly for me, um, we can hide, we can hide things and we can we can maybe dampen things down. And I think what it allowed me to do was kind of really start thinking about who's this person here.

SPEAKER_00: 5:57

So actually, what we're looking at with running is very much the opposite of of drinking. So rather than dampening things down, the which I is very common with drinking, drinking drugs, um, all sorts of addictions are normally ways of escaping from the the painful normalcy or struggle of human existence. And it ain't an easy journey. I mean, that's something that I've really sort of been very aware of over a long, long time. No one gets out of jail free. It's it's a struggle being a human being. But you've I think if we find our passion, which is the reason that I I wanted to bring you onto this programme, is because you have a deep passion for what it is you do. So when we find our passion, it's almost like a a part of us gets ignited, switched on, and and it's like we can't go back into neutral ever again because actually you found where you are, and it it's normally not an easy path to step away from your your training, from your um regular livelihood, but it's a path that your soul is leading you on. So say a bit about about running, because I know you've run all over the world, and uh and and and actually it's something that sort of it's it feels like it's it's a part of you.

SPEAKER_01: 7:08

Oh 100%. My my my life is just filled with running. You know, I'm I'm lucky enough to now talk about running to people that want me to talk to them about running. Um and yeah, I um I'm lucky enough to be invited as part of the Abbotts World major marathon world championships. Um, as I've got an older, I'm actually quite good at marathon running. So I um so you have to do a certain time for that distance. And if you're within that category, um you get invited to go and run. So I've been invited to Chicago, to Sydney, and this year New York. So I'm I'm five weeks away from going to New York marathon. So yeah, it's become such, well, it's always been a big part of my life, but it's just become this beautiful thing that I can now share with people. And it's the the way that I I like to talk about running and I I take the holistic approach. So that's why I mentioned about the drinking, because it's a it's not just about the running, it's it's what we what how we you know hydrate, how we feed ourselves, our sleep, our quiet time, our meditative practice. So I've really gotten into breath work. I'm now a breath work facilitator because it's all linked. You know, if if we can train as much as we want, but if this isn't right, if this isn't in the game either, then we've got a bit of a mismatch because the body and the mind talk to each other all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 8:32

I if I notice that as a as a as running therapy groups, when I'm um when I'm in sync with myself, it's almost as though it becomes so much easier to tune in to other people and to do the work that I'm meant to do. So this is the practice I think that we undergo is is how to synchronize ourselves with our um uh our purest. I don't mean purest in a sort of a a sort of a sort of a a sort of Oliver Cromwell sort of way. I'm talking about um the uh the our purest self, our easy self. And it feels like that's that's what you're very much in tune with. So um what's what's the timing of the marathon? So marathon is 26 miles? 26.2.

SPEAKER_01: 9:10

Don't forget the point.

SPEAKER_00: 9:11

26.2, don't forget the point. And and um what's what's your timing on on running that?

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

Um well my my current personal best is is 3.19, it's three hours 19.

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

So um, which I did in Chicago at the age of 49. So my I'm getting better and faster as I get older, and that's because of of this holistic approach to running, you know, this this beautiful thing. I look after myself. And we do have to look after ourselves a little bit more as we get older, and um, so I'm hoping in New York to to better that time.

SPEAKER_00: 9:44

Fantastic. And that's great. That's it's sort of uh again, it's like it's something that you wouldn't imagine you improve with with age. It feels like there's a window where where being an athlete works, yeah. Beyond that window, um there tends to be decline. But what I'm hearing is that you've you're finding something inside yourself that gives you meaning, that actually allows you to transcend. Uh I mean, and you know, you're you don't you're not carrying an ounce of extra weight either, so that helps a lot. But this allows you to transcend um the the limitations of the body. So tell us a little bit about about that. But the the limitations of about you know, because you're you're you're now in your 50s.

SPEAKER_01: 10:24

Yes, 51.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

Yes, good. And and tell us about how the how how your body is responding to to this pressure that you're you're bringing to, traveling all over the world, running marathons.

SPEAKER_01: 10:37

Well, it's it is this, it's beyond so my my business name is actually beyond running because it is this thing that we have to look at all the other aspects. Anybody really can go out and run whatever they want to, you know, they can follow a plan, but actually, what are all the necessities behind that? You know, good sleep, you know, for recovery, to be able to get up and bounce back, you know, especially being in my 50s, it's super important. You know, I need to be able to do a session like today and then be able to do it again tomorrow. So it's not just one session. So sleep, recovery, um, fueling with nutritious food, you know, recovering well, um, including lots of water, hydration, and and strength training as we get older, certainly towards our 40s and 50s, we need to strength train and and put the load through the bones that the bones can help us. Um, so it is this beautiful relationship between like the physical, but also then thinking outside the box. What is it I need to do to supplement this?

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

You just reminded me when I was in my I think my twenties, I did something called the inner game of tennis, and um and it's basically that the the skill is in here, not there. And and so you're doing all sorts of exercises to tune up your mind as you're playing, and and I've noticed that I've suddenly found myself playing good tennis for the first time I'd ever played it, because I'd got there in the in the mind, not just in the body. And so clearly that's what you're doing. And so you're training people to do this, presumably with running.

SPEAKER_01: 12:16

Absolutely, and so a lot of the work that I do coaching-wise is positive psychology behind it. So I do I do online coaching, so I'm not physically with people running. So, what so how does that work? Like people say to me, how does that work? You're not physically with them. Well, this is where the work is. So anyone can go out and run, and I will tell people what to do. But actually, if this isn't right and we do a lot of work around limiting beliefs, my my my uh phrase is trust the process, which I know that you love and you use also, but it is ultimately about letting go of the outcome. What this this doesn't really matter because if we're enjoying the journey, if we're enjoying the ups and downs, and inevitably there'll be downs, we come back up and it's that you know, that beautiful the obstacle is the way, you know, which has also been in part, you know, a lot of my life in the last few years for sure. But um, you know, and and breath work, I really want to mention the breath work because it's been such an integral part in certainly in the last 18 months of how this body and mind connect. Physically, we can we could if we do breath work on a regular basis, on a consistent basis, we can recover quicker. It makes the oxygen delivery um more efficient. But more importantly, going back to the mind again, more importantly, it brings a sense of calm, it brings that sense of responding rather than reacting, and kind of all these are necessary, especially if you want to go and perform at a big race. So, you know, taking my New York marathon for in for example, everything I'm doing now, all the breath work, all the training is going to put me on the start line, and I know that I will be able to stand there confident, both in body and mind. And that's what I try to deliver or help people get to in their co in their run coaching.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

So, how does this roll over into your life? Because presumably it's like it impacts on your relationships, on on uh your friendships, on on what else you do. How does that how does it impact? That's not too tricky a question.

SPEAKER_01: 14:18

No, no, not at all. I mean, it's it's um marathon training is sometimes a very lonely road because you do have to make sacrifices. There's no doubt about it. Like, you know, because it's not just about the running, it's that time that I've already talked about. The the preparation before you go for a run, the time after to stretch to refuel, you know, it takes so if you have an hour's run, it's probably two hours in total, you know. So that's a big chunk of time out of the day. So there's a commitment there, there's a definite commitment in terms of do you want to do the best now to be able to get here? So you have to be committed. Um, and certainly, you know, that that impacts I go to bed very early, you know. I don't particularly um go out in the evening. That suits me, that I'm much more of an early bird anyway, and I much would rather have social commitments during the day. Um that luckily the way that I work now with my coaching, it allows me to have that flexibility. So not only am I doing the job I love, but it also gives me the opportunity to do the training that I want to do and love to be able to go and do the races that I want to do. Um, so it's a definite uh, you know, there's a definite sacrifice um when you do these big races. Um, but ultimately it's what I want to do. The the the big thing for me is I want to see how far I can push myself until I can't anymore. I don't want to look back and go, why didn't you? Or I mean, I don't really do regrets anyway, but I never want to kind of look back and go, why didn't you go there? Or why didn't you push yourself? Or and just I don't want those questions. I want to be able to really dedicate this time while I'm while I feel like I'm kind of in my prime, like I do. I really do. And this whole self-development journey has helped that. I'm in a much better place, a locked down to you, Malcolm, in the last sort of six months, uh eight months of of doing the psychotherapy with you. But it's, you know, I'm in a much better place to look forward now.

SPEAKER_00: 16:15

Yes. Yeah, that's interesting. And I'm I'm wondering, um, you know, I know when I I left being an accountant originally and then an estate agent, and then sort of like then as my family story, I'd flipped out and become very weird. And I sailed on the rainwork warrior with Greenpeace, uh went to Thermal Cancer Hospice. I was looking to find myself, and I'm wondering how your your family met you in that place. Because I think sometimes there's a sort of sense that we have to pull away from the known and whether they understood you and whether they supported you. In the self-development journey, on the the right, yeah, the the work that you're doing now, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 16:51

Yeah, um, yeah, it's it's interesting. I don't I don't think many people understand my life, including um, including my family, but they they accept what I do. They, you know, and everyone is very supportive, but I do lead a quite um an unusual life, I guess. You know, I'm I'm out there running most days. In fact, every day I'm moving my body. I would much rather live outdoors than be inside, you know. A lot of people feel like that, but um, they're supportive, and you know, they maybe they don't understand the extent to what I do, you know, because they're not many of my family are particularly runners. There's some of them are sporty, but they're not runners. So unless you're a runner, I think you don't quite understand the commitment.

SPEAKER_00: 17:36

And I think on very um, very odd times. I used to run three miles when I was in my teens and in my twenties. That was my distance, and I and I was reasonably good at it then. I'm now in my 70s, I'm certainly very good at it, but you never know. I might come to you for a coaching. So um, but I there was that that very odd time where I would hit what's called a runner's high, and it was like it was like the most magical thing without drugs, without addiction, without something else, or maybe it is an addiction in itself, there was a sense of being in bliss with the running. And I wonder whether you have that and what you know of that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:15

Oh, 100%. And it does, however, it doesn't happen all the time. I mean, we can't run well all the time. And I do have some of my um athletes say to me, Oh, I've I've maybe had a bad run or this run hasn't gone quite so bad. But you know, I I say to them, well, we don't always have a good sleep, we don't always have a good day at work, we don't always have a great morning, so we can't expect our running to be good all the time. You know, there's this up and down road um to success, you know, there's bumps in the road, and actually the bumps are like where the learning is. So I I I try not to allow anyone to use the the the F word, the failure word, because to me, we either succeed or we learn. And that's what I've really adapted, you know, I I've I've learned that, and I'm hopefully helping other people come through that because that's where you know people think, oh, I haven't perhaps had a good run today. However, on the other side, when they have an amazing run, and when I have that, we call it flow state, you know, we find it in a lot of things, don't we? But that flow state of when a run has just clicked, it's just gone right, it just feels amazing. I mean, I had a beautiful run. I'm actually living on the edge of the Peat District, um park at the moment. And um one of my uh my run, my long run was on Friday, and it was one of those beautiful mornings where it was cool but beautiful blue skies, and I was out before you know anybody was up, and I was literally at the top of a hill by like eight, 8 a.m. You know, and I'd run like a couple of hours, you know, it's just magical. And I just stood on the top of the hill and shouted, and I don't mind sharing this, I'm alive. You know, this is where I'm meant to be. This is everything that I've done has led me to these moments of feeling such joy, you know, and I think that's maybe what you're referring to of that flow, that moment where you just know that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00: 20:10

Yes. I I I find it now as you know, um in my dotage, I find it as sort of um when I'm running groups, there's some there's sometimes where I'm just so utterly in tune. It's like I don't have to do anything except allow the process to come through me. And that's what I'm hearing is a is a is a given in what you're doing as well. The process comes through you.

SPEAKER_01: 20:29

Oh, 100%. And and I've experienced your, you know, the group and and how that happens. And it's it's the magical thing.

SPEAKER_00: 20:37

It's a it is a magical thing, and it's like I know that I when I was younger, when I or when I was, you know, um much less experienced, I used to think, God aren't I am amazing, I'm doing all this amazing work. But as soon as I thought like that, life will come and trip me up because that that space doesn't go well with hubrists. So if you start thinking I'm an amazing runner, I've it's like, but actually what I'm hearing is that you are allowing it to come through you, which I think is where the magic really lies.

SPEAKER_01: 21:04

Yeah, I've when I when I actually started, when I really wanted when I knew I was going to do this and I was gonna I was make gonna make a living from it, my I have always said authentic, I want to be authentic, you know, whatever that is on social media, in front of clients, in front of people, talking about it, if I move away from being authentic, I've l I've lost the purpose.

SPEAKER_00: 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:27

And I think I've re- I I hope that I feel like I have remained true to that. And I and I get feedback that that I I I walk the talk, is that the right phrase? You know, I do and and that's being authentic. You know, at the moment, the beautiful thing is I'm actually documenting my journey to New York marathon. So I'm doing a video at the end of each week, and and it's straight after a the long run, usually on a Friday, and it is real, raw, authentic, because there's a little bit maybe of a oh, she's a run coach. Maybe she finds it easy all the time, and it's nothing could be further from the truth. I have these ups and downs, I have these obstacles, I have these feelings, I have the chimp. As you know, I I love to talk about my chimp that sits on my shoulder and she's loud, you know. I'm tired, I'm you know, I've got this ongoing training program to execute, and there's maybe an expectation. Claire's a runco, she's gonna do X, Y, and Z in New York. I'm sharing this and I'm documenting it because there's an authenticity there that actually I want to show of like I don't find it easy. I'm all you know, I'm trusting the process and I'm keeping showing up. And actually the feedback I'm getting is oh my gosh, that's that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_00: 22:43

Yes. And is there a community of people who to run into the marathons? Is it is it like a groupie that's sort of go, oh hi, you're here on this this marathon or whatever else?

SPEAKER_01: 22:53

I mean, there's quite a lot of people that do them. I mean, it's still 0.01% of the world's population that has run a marathon, which is quite an exclusive club. But you know, I think I think when you immerse yourself in your own world, so for you, you know, you've probably got your own community of psychotherapists, and like for me, I've got my community of running people and self-development people. Again, it's all interlictant breath work, so it can feel like there's a massive community, and there is, and there's a lot of support. However, when you step away from that, you think, oof, not everyone's talking about running, not everyone's talking about self-development, not everyone's talking about breath work. So then I climb back into my little world and feel safe.

SPEAKER_00: 23:37

I think what we we need to talk about, or for me, what I need to talk about is it doesn't really matter whether it's running because you know, and I'm doing these podcasts, I love talking to people about their passions and and what's shaped them. But I think it's it's really about sort of like knowing that I'm I'm not very interested in small talk. I don't want to talk about the weather or or stuff like that, but I want to talk about where people's passions are, and I think that's the reason I I wanted to interview you on the podcast is that you are so passionate about what it is you do.

SPEAKER_01: 24:08

Oh, 100%. It's just as I say, I think, you know, to come into this after COVID and really immerse myself, I just felt that I had found my purpose, you know, I had found this is what I want to do. I want to be able to help people. You know, the the biggest joy I get is taking somebody from A when they, you know, I and it's not just marathons I coach on, it's it's I have a couple of clients that literally started with me a couple of years ago and said, I'd like to run three miles, 5k consistently, three times a week. I want you to help me. You know, so I have people and and it's and it's seeing them at the start of their journey and helping them. And I'm in their pocket, you know, I'm on the end of a WhatsApp, I'm I'm there with them, I am with them every step because I want to be. Their goals become my goals. I I'm absolutely wanting to take them from A. And I want to, I want, you know, the belief that comes through. I mean, I'm sure you see it in your groups, you know, that belief all of a sudden and the confidence that the journey goes from A, we go through the ups and downs, you know, and I go back to the obstacle is the way. Let's keep going, keep showing up, trust the process. And at the end, you know, and it's never the end, but we get to what they want to do and the belief and the joy. You I mean, that just to me is is uh magical. Again, I'll use that word because it's it's ultimately taking somebody who thinks maybe they can't do it, or maybe they just need some support and help and getting them to where they want to be.

SPEAKER_00: 25:41

Yeah. So it's a way of helping people get give life meaning. And uh yeah, I mean, you know, so I I I thought something if I was sitting here every day and had my feet up and my slippers on and went for a little walk and did the shopping each day, I'd go a bit nuts. No, I think that that I I really want to continue having meaning in my life. And I'm reminded of George Bernassure's quote on purpose. He said, where you know, the um I want to be thoroughly used up when I die for the harder I work, the more I live. And I and that's what I'm what I'm hearing is that you are growing into in your in at a time when people are often sort of like taking their foot off the pedal, you're growing into the the the the work that you're doing now. Where where do you see yourself going with with what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01: 26:24

I just I just I can't see me stopping. It's just it's you know, uh yes, of course, I'm I'm making a living from it, but I it gives me such purpose, such joy that I just want to do this, you know. I and it's not just the the beautiful thing about the way I coach and the positive psychology behind it is that I'm building people's confidence outside of the running as well, because ultimately, as I go back, as I go back to what I said at the beginning, this beyond running approach, if somebody can't do training or can't get outfit, there's usually you know work reasons or family reasons or you know, sickness and whatever it is, that everything impacts on the run, which I usually need and they usually tell me about. So I'm with them. I'm giving and and basically we talk around that. And if there's problems, we we can, you know, the positive psychology, we reframe it, we can talk about how that works. And what I see in front of me is not just somebody improving in their running, but actually improving in most aspects of their life. I've had some feedback recently that from somebody that I started working with in January that has said they are the now feel the most confident they have ever been in their entire life, outside of running.

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

So running is it impacts outside of that in the real life or the the large life, then you're doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01: 27:49

And and you know, I you know, it's just so beautiful. I it's I literally um I'm I'm honored I'm honored to take someone through that journey. I mean, I I'm assuming it's similar to you of of what you there's a privilege.

SPEAKER_00: 28:03

There is a privilege in actually being able to help mould people's psyches or to be an instrument that is part of the moulding of their psyches. Yeah, this is based. I see similarities there, Claire. So that's lovely. Yeah. So um, yeah, so um and and and um the theme of the the podcast is about overcoming adversity. What's um what have been the adversities you've you've had to work with in your life?

SPEAKER_01: 28:28

Yeah, well, um the biggest one, I guess, for me has been I was recently divorced um a couple of years ago, and so that was um pretty, pretty big change for me. Um and um as you know, you know, I've I joined your group in January, which has been life-changing. So I do thank you for that. It's just got me to where, I mean, to be sat in front of you and having this discussion, you know, if you'd have asked me eight months ago, I'd have I'd have been like, what are you actually kidding that I would do this? So um, you know, the biggest thing has been uh a divorce and um you know, leading up to that, the whole because we're still friends, so there was no animosity, there was no um, you know, someone did something wrong. So that was a big part to be able to walk away from somebody that you deeply still care about, but actually isn't serving you anymore, is you know, quite brave and quite courageous. And so that came, has come with a lot of emotion, um, a lot of working out who Claire is. And I think I remember saying to you, Malcolm, at the start about, you know, the Greek therapy, and I and I saw you on a one-to-one last year, um, but I I seem to remember I said it in January, I didn't know, I I felt like I'd lost Claire, and I didn't know who Claire was. I she'd become this, you know, this I felt suffocated. I kept using the word suffocated. And and what I've done over the last eight months is start to really go deeper. And and your beautiful uh phrase of speak the truth has just I have clung on to that because it's been so important for me because ultimately it's about speaking the truth to myself. You know, I've been probably BSing myself quite a bit recently, like and so when I was like this muddy water of who who is Claire, who is she when she's not a wife and she's not doing XYZ, you know, that comes with a lot of emotion, like because you know, I was married for 16 years. That's a big part of my big part of my life. And you know, to start finding. And the ultimate thing was I've found trust. You know, the big learning for me is speaking the truth to myself and learning to trust myself. And your group psychotherapy has had the biggest impact on enabling me to do that because I've you you challenge like when we do the work within the group, you challenge, there's no BS there. There's, you know, you you enable the space to I I'm vulnerable, which I never thought I'd be. And um, so you know, I'm I'm coming out of this now. I feel like I I can start to see who Claire is, you know, as a person, not not as the run coach, but who Claire is. Um, where does she want to be? Where does she want to go? And so, you know, that's that's a um I'll be forever grateful, Malcolm.

SPEAKER_00: 31:34

That's very that's very sweet. But it's actually also, and I guess it's sort of, you know, I'm seeing the similarities as we're speaking this morning. It's it's almost like when you're in the thing that your soul is begging you or insisting that you do or challenging you to do, um, there's it almost feels like, and I and I'm not heavily into the mystical, but it almost feels like there's divine assistance in that in that role. That when you're really honouring um this the uniqueness of who you are and bringing it to bear in the world, there's there's help, there's support. And I know that Goethe wrote uh, or a poem that's been attributed to Goethe wrote about when we when we fully align with and take action for what it is we were meant to do, it's almost like the entire force of the universe comes in behind us and helps us. And I can see you're running, and I think what what I think that the the p how people respond to you is that you have an infectious enthusiasm. You have an enthusiasm because you're doing what it is you were born to do, as as I say it, um, and people respond to that. Whereas if we're sort of we're flat, if we're sort of like, you know, there's not much going on, then people tend to have polite conversations with us, but they're not going to engage us in in-depth stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 32:49

Yeah, no, it's so true. And I think and I think stances of going through um, you know, a separation and a divorce, and not not that I've been vocal about it, but you know, I've I've um shared that I'm going through this with with people through with my coaches, and and it and again they say, well, you're just you're being real and authentic, and actually, you know, you're still showing up and doing your running and you're still doing XYZ, and and that's really good for them to see. And and it's the emotion, you know, the emotion, because emotion is so fatiguing, like emotional, um, you know, grain of having to go through these personal circumstances of separation, divorce, and and leaving somebody that you really, really care about, you know, that was a tough thing. I mean, one of the things that um was such a beautiful moment for me was I was lucky enough to trek to Everest Base Camp in two years ago, and that to me was, and that was sort of in the early part of the year, and that to me was this beautiful um adventure, joy, and obviously in Nepal, such a beautiful part of the world, very spiritual. And I found a sense of clarity in that in that um adventure in that track. There was a lot of laugh and a lot of fun, however, for me personally, I was making some key decisions, and I think to be able to step away from the current situation of being married with somebody in living in the same house, to go to this beautiful place, to then make, you know, have this clarity, the fresh air, the mountains, everist, you know, it just allowed me to. I kept saying to myself, this is it's very clear what you have to do. You know, I'd probably known, if I'm super honest with myself, for a while that that was the decision I needed to make about leaving, about separating. But this beautiful moment, as hard as it was, and when I came back, I had to have the conversation, and that was the hardest conversation I'll ever have in my entire life so far, for sure. Um, you know, but it's it, I think these things just I think the universe provides us with the steps that we need. You know, I you know, that trip was meant for me at that time, for me to make these key decisions. But you know, going back to that, you know, I come back and I separate and we we divorce and we we're still good friends. Um, but you know, to show to show you that I can still continue with my running and still perform, you know, that I can keep showing up. There's ups and downs along the way. I'll keep going back to that. I'll keep coming back. Um, but I think that's where the connection with the people I work with is is real. You know, they see that I'm a real person. I'm not just some run coach sat on the end of a Zoom or speaking to them or in a group, you know, I do group coaching or in a group, I I'm real, I go through these ups and downs and these um situations like everybody else.

SPEAKER_00: 35:53

Yeah, so it's the multi-dimensional dimensionality of what it is you do as well. So I've I know that I've you know I've gone to yoga classes, I used to go quite a lot to yoga classes, and you'd see people who who knew the techniques pretty well and taught them as and like an exercise class, and you then you have the yoga teachers who it was in their blood, in their being, in everything about them, and then I was inspired, and then I wanted to study with them. They were the people I wanted to learn with. So we're coming towards the end of our podcast together, and um it's delightful interviewing you as well, Claire. So that's really nice. And and I always ask the same question at the end, which is what's the particular dragon you've had to slay? What's the obstacle you've had to overcome to be who you are?

SPEAKER_01: 36:39

For me, it's about being me. So I feel I've probably hidden quite a lot in my in my life. I've I've probably played small quite a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

Let's use the word probably, shall we? Oh I've been hidden and I've played small. It comes with so much more powerfully then, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 36:57

It does. I mean, um I mean we talk about that all the time in the group, yes. So I have been small and I have hidden um for a long, long time, you know, and that's um the the recognition behind that, you know, like probably for a while, many, many years. And um that's something that I didn't realize until I started working with you.

SPEAKER_00: 37:20

It's almost like being in a sort of like in a um a sort of an enclosed environment, not realizing there's a bigger world out there. And then when you experience it, it's like, oh, okay, it's not this tiny little world that we live in.

SPEAKER_01: 37:34

Oh, 100%. And and you know what, that comes back to because I've stayed small, I've been hidden, I then am not speaking my truth. I am not the real Claire, I am not being actually authentic, and that's really important to me, being authentic. But actually, if I look back, I probably wasn't being as authentic as I could have been. You know, so all these things about speaking the truth mostly to myself has been such a key and such the I mean that's the biggest dragon, myself.

SPEAKER_00: 38:03

That's a good that's a good dragon to be to be working with slaying as well. Yeah, yes. That's lovely. Well, thank you, thank you so much for uh for for coming today and um um and to doing this with us. So it's really, really good to see you, Claire. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 38:18

Thank you. Uh it's been a joy. I could have talked probably for another hour, but I understand.

SPEAKER_00: 38:24

Perfect. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 38:25

Thanks.